[HQ Ignorance] Re : Re : Re : Group contests in HeroQuest 2

[Loran]

I refer to "The Logic of Collective Action : Public goods and the Theory of Groups".

Sam, I agree with you and... not.

Yes, solidarity exists without external coercion, that's the light side of humanity.
I agree with you especially if the players are chosen among equals, equal in intentions, capacities and good will (which represents, I hope, most of the game sessions on earth)

But I have seen some table game sessions totally under the ascendancy of one or several players. This could happen for various reasons, sometime the guy was brilliant and his bigger share of loot could have been a kind of more or less conscious payment from the group for his higher contribution to the group success (but still it wasn't a clear, fully accepted contract among equals, rather the result of the domination of a cunning mind over the rest), but sometime I have  also seen table game sessions (the most often in hobbies clubs, where you can't choose freely your own game companions) totally cannibalized by ascendant personnalities acting like tyrants with a court of obediant followers... I'm pretty sure that it wasn't MGF for everyone around the table.

We can also imagine other situations not so extreme but still worrying, for example I'm pretty sure that someone would pay gladly instead to have to deal with a long discussion killing the game action, but finishing the game session with the impression to have been wronged. 

Personnally I think that one of the GM's roles and responsabilities is to be the referee and before that the coach of the group's dynamic.
To me the rules should be "wrongness" proof (whatever "wrong" you may encounter), so I don't like rules that may leave the door open for conflicts among players (either open or dormant). In fact I don't need rules of the game when I play with nice people with a clever referee (e.g.: do we really need rules in our current game ? probably just for mutual understanding, but not much more).

With these rules if the GM see a wrong done among players, he can just compensate the loser by giving him more HP thus cancelling the HP price and the paiement notion thus cancelling the rule made to simulate group action. In this situation the rule system is failing.

The parallele with Economy is fascinating...
HP and money are both power quantification and I suppose this point is the eternal debate on "do we bet that peoples will be reasonable or not?"

Loran


----- Message d'origine ----
De : Sam Elliot <samlelliot at gmail.com>
À : HeroQuest Glorantha <ignorance at mimesisrpg.com>
Envoyé le : Mardi, 15 Septembre 2009, 14h28mn 52s
Objet : Re: [HQ Ignorance] Re : Re : Group contests in HeroQuest 2

I believe you are referring to the Tragedy of the Commons; Game Theory
etc. In evolutionary biology, the evolution of cooperation and of
mutualisms.

Collective actions (and apparent 'altruism') don't require external
forces or actors. Repeated contact with the same individuals, leading
to sanctions and reciprocity, suffice to get groups to act for the
'common good'.

So around a game table, the player who only acts for his own benefit
will likely induce sanctions from his/her co-players. No need for a
GM.

This already occurs in RPGs all the time. Think of your classic healing potions.

Sam.

On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 6:11 AM, Loran <aillet_l at yahoo.fr> wrote:
> Then a cunning player on the table may be tempted to take the stowaway role and let the other players sacrify their precious HP while he selfishly keeps his own points to progress faster than the group.
>
> Because Humanity is also made of this, I think that any "Rules of the Game" (whatever the game) should be able to resist to that for the sake of Fun and Community Spirit.
>
> The main answer of Mancur Olson was the creation of a fair authority above the peers (an organized state, he was original for an american thinker), which gives in our case... the GM.
>
> Just my thoughts,
> Loran
>
>
> ----- Message d'origine ----
> De : Lev Lafayette <lev at mimesisrpg.com>
> À : HeroQuest Glorantha <ignorance at mimesisrpg.com>
> Envoyé le : Mardi, 15 Septembre 2009, 10h39mn 59s
> Objet : Re: [HQ Ignorance] Re : Group contests in HeroQuest 2
>
> On Sun, 2009-09-13 at 05:43 +0000, Loran wrote:
>> The classical Mancur Olson's paradox: who will pay individually for
>> the benefit of all ?
>>
> *nods* It's a case of whoever pays up first. Of course around the table
> this could be the subject of a great deal of negotiation.
>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________________
>> De : Christopher Graves <chrphrgrv at gmail.com>
>> À : HeroQuest Glorantha <ignorance at mimesisrpg.com>
>> Envoyé le : Dimanche, 13 Septembre 2009, 7h31mn 47s
>> Objet : Re: [HQ Ignorance] Group contests in HeroQuest 2
>>
>> But this is still fewer HPs per individual right?  Do the players just
>> decide via mutual consent who pays the HPs?
>>
>
> That's right. Overall it is cheaper, another advantage of group effors.
> And, of course, you can distribute the costs as you please.
>
>
>
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