[HQ Ignorance] Re : Namaless One's Riddle

Wed Feb 7 15:34:02 UTC 2007

Thanks Sam for this very interesting words.
Rebouncing on them and digging more and more in my own thoughts... I found an other funny solution.

Effectively, It is really hard for Azhur to imagine that true western malkioni are parents with men-beast of the past and monstruous krjalki, like trolls and dwarves (not speaking about vegetable-men)...

In western belief it is SIN that bring mortality, as Death comes to immortal brithini, who were the only true men in the past ages.

So who have changed immortal true men into mortal ones and gave them the "gift" of TIME ?
Before him Death and Ageing was a curse but with the redemption of Joy it becomes a gift...
hu... my answer will appear monomaniacal for a Loskalmi, but... Hrestol ?
(as a player, I will happily read about any lack of this idea)

That why if the Nameless One die, the "Beastmen shall arise again and the forests shall grow", because they are not concerned by the Nameless One... and the Nameless One is a fronelan figure, so perhaps deeply concerned with the local civilizations, not a Godlearners' view of the world.
Because if the Nameless One was the proposed solution of an universal Primal Human Being, then killing him will aslo kill beastmen and destroy elves, no ?

I like the "ME" solution because it contains a double sens and avoids the clarification you ask to Azhur.
"Me" could be an ignorant descendant of GrandFather Mortal or a "sinner" that gives "Time" to his immortal body pushing him to "Death" symbolized by the Kingdom of War... The Nameless One being ether the expression of the fronelan sins or the deep human pulsions (the Mortal/Man Rune?), in all cases quite the same = typical basic human basic.

Hu... I strongly need a hrestoli bishop to avoid heretic thoughts now...
Lev, could you check this and correct me if I'm too far away from Hrestoli tradition ?
(and after all of this I beg you to tell us if you make such a subtile riddle or, if as usual, players make it complicated and impossible themselves? :-D)

PS : I diseagree with the idea that if we loose "Time" we go back to the Green Age... my opinion is that without the Great Spell/Net, Dark Age and Devil are back... to my opinion, sabotage of the mission will be a failure for all... I will have to discuss this with an elf of my knowledge ;-)

PPS : Make war to bring Peace ? you have exemples ?

Any other hint or argument ?
Loran

----- Message d'origine ----
De : Sam Elliot <sam.elliot1 at btinternet.com>
À : HeroQuest Glorantha <ignorance at mimesisrpg.com>
Envoyé le : Mercredi, 7 Février 2007, 12h04mn 19s
Objet : Re: [HQ Ignorance] Namaless One's Riddle

Loran <aillet_l at yahoo.fr> wrote:
  -> Seek peace ? because of Lord Death on a Horse ?
-> Any idea on the Greatest of all evils ?
- War (Death) to all ?
- Devil (Chaos) to all ?

  KoW is looking for peace. Their method is war. Happens all the time in the Real World. 

> So great that it will may even slay me.
-> What can kill this spirit ?

  Gbaji, for one. End of the Third Age.

> The Beastmen shall arise again and the forests shall grow."
-> Well not only the elf position is questionable here...
I believe that this sentence need a close look.

  If Time ends then we return to before the Dawn. Great for the Aldryami and the beastmen if we return to the Green Age. Icthya has just realised that that is great, but maybe there is a better way to do it than to bring Gbaji into the world.

> "Bearer of the banner,
 you have one chance.
-> See... we have to be careful

  Yes and no. Lev reassuringly said that he may use a well-thought out answer (thanks for the info Lev). I say the key is to find an interesting answer. Grandfather Mortal is definitely interesting. The fact that there is no name for him among the Westerners and they think him a criminal is even more interesting. We could further complicate things by saying that his name is "Me" or something profound like that.

> Confer among yourselves, and name me correctly
-> Should we name the Nameless One or the Gift ?
(Lev, perhaps you could tell and make it clearer here, if it is my english level that is not hight enough)

  Nameless One definitely. I don´t think English not being your mother tongue is interfering at all.

-> Ok protecting mankind seems to be protecting the Nameless One
To me, the Nameless One is more a criminal than a virtuous
 guy.
(Lev, could you inform us on with general knowledge on the Nameless One?)

  The general knowledge Lev gave us was that he has committed many crimes (the NM, not Lev). Despite this, he seems to be acting on our side for the moment. He is capable of possessing people and sending them into murderous rampages.

-> I think he could be someting more much conceptual than the first human : Human sins or failures for exemple, which would define mankind more in the hrestoli way. Without failure, no humanity, no redemption.. etc...

Grandfather Mortal already is something more conceptual, along the lines of what you say, or perhaps more Nic´s original thoughts - mortality etc. He is already known to be a part of everyone and a part of everything (that´s why "Me" could be an answer). I don´t think he is the first Human either, but the first Man, so, including beastmen, elves (not aldryami), dwarves I think, and so on. That concept
 would not, I think, work for the monotheists, so they have forgotten about him. 

  Can Azhur bring himself to accept that? If not we are in trouble, but a very interesting kind of trouble: is a Jew about to accept that Christ was the Son of God? Conversely, is a Christian about to accept that Christ was just another prophet, as Islam has it? Perhaps a better parallel: is an organised religion going to accept that the Wild Man all those pagan primitives talk about is actually the progenitor of the human race?

  Tricky. I think we have the right answer. What Azhur is going to do about it though...[as far as I´m concerned, BTW, you have my support for Azhur not to accept any of this if you wish to go that way - I think the story then becomes very interesting indeed].

  Sam.
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